5C Collet Drawbar

My eyes (and patience) went down the tubes a long time ago... Those little inserts are lifesavers in that regard but, I will admit, they're pricey little devils at about 6 bucks each. Fortunately, they last a very long time. I used the same tip once for well over a month and that included 22 stainless steel caps almost 2" diameter with 1" of thread length -then I used it on normal steel for a good while after that. It didn't die until I fell asleep at the switch and didn't yank the lever when I was supposed to... -but then there's 2 more tips (triangular) to go. Also, they cut at much lower speeds if needed because they're carbide, sharp as razors and have a lot of top rake. I do so much lathe threading, it's not even funny. Let me know if you ever need help selecting the right tools and inserts should you decide to go that route some day.


Ray



Ray, I bookmarked your formula. That will save me a lot of time..and guessing. I've never tried inserts for threading. I guess when the drawer full of hss bits runs out or my eyes get so bad I can't see to grind them, maybe I'll think about buying some. Thanks

Chuck
 
Here's another little tidbit but first, let me mention these are my little tricks that work for me. There are other ways (probably better at that) to skin the cat so, I make no claim this is the right way of doing things. I will say though, my threading success rate is well upward of 97%...

First, here's another derivative formula from the first one. Lets say you have a shaft of the correct diameter that needs threading. How deep should you go? Funny you ask... OptimalThreadDepth = 1.15/(2xPitch). Now here some caveats. A) This will give a 100% engagement (which is useless and will never fit due to friction and micro-burrs). B) There is always a little tool deflection so, actual depth is often not what you dialed in. C) The starting point when the bit first makes contact is difficult to really know.

So, if for some reason you want to make a 1/4"-28 thread, take a piece of 1/4" stock, zero the crossfeed and cut until you reach 1.15/56 (equals 0.0205"). Keep in mind that with most thread cutting, a little cold-forming happens too and the diameter of the shaft as measured by reading over the threads will probably be more than what you started with. Now comes class of fit. If you want a class III (very tight tolerance fit) lookup the nominal diameter (see link for 1/4-28 3A) which is 0.2500 +/- 0.0000 and trim the OD until it's exact. -You're done and you probably have a threaded rod that will be to tight for most practical purposes.

Now let's say you want instead a class 2A (more reasonable fit). Look in the chart and trim the crests until you reach between 0.2500 and 0.2490. Take out your thread mic and read the pitch and verify it's in the tolerable range for 2A... You'll probably need to dial in a tiny bit and go a little deeper with the threads. You're done...

This is why it's so important to have a QCTP that is repeatable because in this process, you've had to swap off the toolholder to trim the OD then back to possibly adjust the threads. Also, I find it tremendously helpful to have a half decent thread mic. You can do it with wires but, be prepared to be there a while. I did it this way once/twice then bought a thread mic.

I hope this is making sense because it's a lot of words to read but, it's really easy when you think about it. Everything here also applies to internal boring... Same principles, formulas etc. Truth is, I don't do as much boring as external threading but, it all works as I've done it many, many times.

Finally, I rarely use dies and always prefer lathe cuts and obviously, for simple threaded holes, I use taps -and taps are available in different H and B (Height, Base) levels to achieve the class (B-rating) you want assuming you've bored the hole to the correct diameter. If you want any Class III B fit, you need to start with the diameter as specified from the formula from an early post. (i.e. BoreDiameter = ShaftDiameter - 1.15/Pitch). To achieve a good staring hole for a given class, use a value of ShaftDiameter in the range for that class.


http://www.engineersedge.com/screw_threads_chart.htm


Now, here's why I use those fancy little inserts. Look at the picture. This insert is designed for a particular thread (I think this one was a 13 TPI). Look at the very edge of my fingernail tip and see the leading cutting edge at the base (widest part) of the cutting edge. That little edge will start trimming the OD when you hit the right depth. Take a rod of the nominal diameter for the class fit you want and keep dialing in until you reach the desired diameter. -You're done!

I'm not sure if all inserts have this feature but, I specifically went with this brand because I had never seen it before. Maybe others have this too but the other inserts I used to use, didn't do this.

BTW, that particular insert has been used like crazy it's still sharp as heck and ready to keep going. You can't see it because of the reflection but that insert has quite a top angle for aggressive and clean cutting. You can get away with much lower RPM or, use it faster too.

Threading Insert.JPG

Once again... Caveat Emptor. These are little tricks and formulas I figured-out myself and seem to work unwaveringly. Happy threading...


Ray

Threading Insert.JPG
 
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Those inserts look pretty cool! Do they come in other thread patterns? Like ACME, Metric, Whitworth?

Do you have the manufacturer name/info?

-Cody
 
Yep, they come in everything under the sun... Metric, ACME, Whitworth and a few I never even heard of...

They're called "Carmex" brand and they are also the parent company of Iscar. Here's a random example of that style of insert. If you order, contact them and ask for a guy named "Avi". Mention my first name and this website and he might give you a better deals or let you break-up orders and still get quantity prices.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Pcs-Carm...831?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cd4b94e97

If you look up Carmex USA and visit their home page, they have a lot of great resources and how to order their products (i.e. naming/sizing conventions). I like their insert holders too...

Ray




Those inserts look pretty cool! Do they come in other thread patterns? Like ACME, Metric, Whitworth?

Do you have the manufacturer name/info?

-Cody
 
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