14x40 lathe clutch issue?

petertha

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After some moderate steel cutting I started to hear a click-click sound from what I'm pretty sure is the the clutch area. I'm pretty sure nothing let go like a shear pin. I can traverse carriage drive under no load but if I put resistance on the hand wheel or cutting, the clicking returns & it basically carriage stalls. I think that's what these set screws & springs are about. But thought I'd ask first in case anyone has experienced this & has recommended adjustment or diagnosis expereince. Here are pics from the manual.

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A sheared pin is what I was thinking (and dreading). But do you think that's consistent with it 'partially' working? If the pin was gone, the shaft should not rotate at all no? It feeds with no resistance, but starts to click-click with load resistance. Some more subsequent info:

I tightened the set screws 1/4 turn at a time & got the noise to reduce & then go away after 3/4 turn or so on both. Figured I was home free, only did very light passes under power feed & then heard this scuff-scuff noise again. I took it apart. The balls & V-grooves look in good shape. The springs are still in their recess, so I guess next step is remove & examine if maybe they are over compressed or mangled. As usual the cross hole for roll pin looked like it was made by a one-eyed butcher.

Reading the manual I'm guessing the purpose of this particular clutch to make a racket, slip & let go so it doesn't take out a shear pin or something? (Not that I can see where a shear pin is located to check anyway). I'm noticing another potential issue. With no gears engaged, if I rotate that shaft by hand it seems pretty smooth but maybe resistance in one spot. I don't feel substantial play. I think both ends are supported by bearings so removing this assembly wont be pretty if that's the case. Dang. Bad timing. I have something rather important chucked up. I was turning 1144SP steel, 0.015 DOC. It seemed to be taking it rather ok but maybe this is close to the limit or I have some underlying problem?

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Totally could be a sheared pin. The one for threading was sheared on mine, but there was still enough friction to drive the carriage back and forth almost perfectly. Just every once in awhile, probably when I did a hard-stop of the lathe, it would shift a bit and screw up the thread I was doing. It took me some time to figure out it was the shear pin.
 
One of the local machinist guys said they replaced the springs on a similar lathe & that cured the issue. he suggested this kind of clutch is a replacement for a shear pin. I don't really see one in the driveline that this power feed is on but these so-called manuals are a cruel joke.

Tonight.. a few steps forward & then backwards again. I inspected the springs. They both looked good, not mangled but were slightly different length. They aren't like super quality to begin with so who knows if this is exactly what they looked like new. I stretched them a smidge, maybe 0.030" & equalized lengths. I practiced sticking the balls in the clutch grove with grease to stay put & getting the clutch body aligned to them. That part is fiddly went ok.

But even on initial disassembly I could tell something was fishy about the cross hole drilled in the rod. You could see it was slightly off center, almost like it was hand drilled. They aren't machined & centered. And I could see a false attempt roll pin stamp just adjacent to the hole. Maybe unrelated, I'm not sure. I had this same cross hole issue on my power feed selector shaft, in fact those (metric) roll pins are still on the slow boat from China. After a few false tries & poking a rod through the hole I finally figured out there was only one possible orientation to re-assemble. In my prior assembly I just used slight tapping on the roll pin but by now it was looking in the false hole so I didn't want to risk it. I jerry rigged a 8-32 cap screw which fit the roll pin hole snug until I get another.

I rotated the shaft by hand again & this time couldn't feel any resistance, so figured maybe I just had the feed selector knob not quite in neutral before? After some adjustment to the ball set screws it seemed to behave itself. First I traversed & held resistance on the carriage wheel. It sounded a bit different under load but I normally don't listen for this anyway. Then I tried a 0.005" DOC pass, seem to go smooth, then detected some resistance at a certain point that altered the finish a bit. But this is where I was experiencing the original problem so figured maybe just irregular surface there. I tried another no-cut pass with firmer hand wheel resistance. This time it made a slight growl & kicked the change gear lever out. WTF!?

I'm rather bummed right now. Mostly I wanted to keep working on my engine project & not fiddle fart with lathe issues. But I think its PITA unscheduled maintenance time & I'm not sure where to start. Maybe new springs will heal it. The so-called manual doesn't spec length so I guess try & find the right coil & cut some sizes. But if it something more involved like bearings or bushings or bent shaft then... ugh... Don't even want to think about that right now.
 
Keep in mind that those components are meant as a fuse to protect the more expensive and more difficult to replace parts. If you make it too strong you may break something that you really do not want to.
 
Yup, agree 100%. I think it dropping out of gear was a warning shot its still not right. Next step from easy to hard is to replace the springs. I have no idea what stock length was supposed to be so will find a long length & cut some pairs in incrementing sizes. If its not that then the issue is deeper in the guts & some major-ish disassembly required.
 
Some of your descriptions almost make it sound like the carriage or feeds might be tight in their movement for some reason. Could be in the gibs, or the half nuts or feed gear, or some such. Make sure the carriage moves freely by hand wheel with the feed and half nuts disengaged, and also that the feed and lead screws will advance the carriage by turning them by hand with the quick change gear box disengaged. Also make sure the mechanism that keeps the feed gear and the half nuts from both being engaged at the same time has not become damaged or maladjusted. Probably not, but worth testing...
 
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Grizzly G9730/G9731 manual to the rescue (similar to my lathe in this respect). Pg 82 & 83 discuss the clutch.
http://cdn0.grizzly.com/manuals/g9731_m.pdf

But is it me or is the text in italics somewhat contradictory to the original adjustment guidance?

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I'm wondering about what's involved removing the power feed rod. There is a vertical bearing block on tailstock end. It has bearings on the RHS for each of 3 rods that terminate there. It kind of appears like I could loosen the bolts that secure block to main way casting & slide it off to the right exposing the rod ends? Then pull the power feed bar through the carriage? Its basically a round rod with a continuous keyway milled in that I guess engages the feed assembly inside the carriage. Or would that be dicey threading the needle back into the carriage again? Anyone come across a teardown /disassembly link for lathes like this?

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