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10d Babbit Bearings

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lakebom184

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#1
Recently obtained an early Atlas 10 D, babbit bearings, removable bearing caps, 5/8 lead screw. Lathe had grease fittings rather than oilers which I.m told is a severe no-no. Finally had time to look Removed bearing caps, Left had lube & bras shim, right dry, no shim, spindle somewhat ugly and the bearing had a small hole in the center. Assuming the bearings can't be replaced like shell bearings Any help would be greatly appreciated as I am new at this
 

Ulma Doctor

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#2
Hi lakebom,
i'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news,
i'm no expert on the subject, but....
babbitt bearings are poured in place, then finished to size by line boring and/or scraping
conceivably, you could do it- but it would take extensive measurement and some accurate setup to hope to attain any breath of accuracy in the finished work.
i don't wish to discourage you from doing it,
but being your first time at it, just know you'll need to bring your lunch if you do decide to do it
 

chips&more

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#3
Welcome! If the bearings are not cracked and or loose. I would just put it back together. Adjusting the clearance as best you can with shims and or shortening the bearing caps. AND PAY EXTRA SPECIAL ATTENTION TO THE END SHAKE ADJUSTMENT! You do not want 0 end shake because then the spindle would not turn around. But you want it as close to 0 as possible with the spindle turning freely. Any more play than that and you will have chatter problems. Yes, all of this bearing adjustment can affect the alignment of the spindle to the tailstock. But you are probably going to have to live with it…Good Luck, Dave.
 

lakebom184

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#4
Welcome! If the bearings are not cracked and or loose. I would just put it back together. Adjusting the clearance as best you can with shims and or shortening the bearing caps. AND PAY EXTRA SPECIAL ATTENTION TO THE END SHAKE ADJUSTMENT! You do not want 0 end shake because then the spindle would not turn around. But you want it as close to 0 as possible with the spindle turning freely. Any more play than that and you will have chatter problems. Yes, all of this bearing adjustment can affect the alignment of the spindle to the tailstock. But you are probably going to have to live with it…Good Luck, Dave.
Welcome! If the bearings are not cracked and or loose. I would just put it back together. Adjusting the clearance as best you can with shims and or shortening the bearing caps. AND PAY EXTRA SPECIAL ATTENTION TO THE END SHAKE ADJUSTMENT! You do not want 0 end shake because then the spindle would not turn around. But you want it as close to 0 as possible with the spindle turning freely. Any more play than that and you will have chatter problems. Yes, all of this bearing adjustment can affect the alignment of the spindle to the tailstock. But you are probably going to have to live with it…Good Luck, Dave.
Thanks for the input. Found bearing caps with shims and oilers on Ebay. Could barely turn spindle prior to removing bearing caps right side was so dry.
Lathe came from a body shop so is really crudded up.Seems to have virtually no end play at this point but will definitely pay attention. Thanks again!
Lake
 

lakebom184

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#5
Hi lakebom,
i'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news,
i'm no expert on the subject, but....
babbitt bearings are poured in place, then finished to size by line boring and/or scraping
conceivably, you could do it- but it would take extensive measurement and some accurate setup to hope to attain any breath of accuracy in the finished work.
i don't wish to discourage you from doing it,
but being your first time at it, just know you'll need to bring your lunch if you do decide to do it
Thanks for the input!
 

wa5cab

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#6
Whatever you do, don't try to put bearing caps from another babbit 10" or 12" onto it. I would suggest, if the spindle is chewed up, to find a better looking used spindle and see whether or not you need to add shims back in order to turn the spindle.

If it is still loose, have someone who can to it accurately shave 0.0100" off of both faces on both caps and see where you are.

In any case, the tailstock is probably going to be high. If you can tighten up the spindle, buy a used 1" spacer block on eBay (they turn up frequently, and you don't want to touch your original in case you later decide to replace the headstock) and have it surface ground to match the spindle.

And DO NOT use grease on the spindle bearings.
 

lakebom184

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#7
Thank you for your input. Upon another look at the spindle perhaps it is not too bad. Thinking the crud can be cleaned with emery cloth. I did in fact buy a pair of bearing caps on ebay but primarily for the oilers and shims which I didnt have The spindle is actually tight rather than loose I assume due to crud and lack of shims. If my understanding of the babbit process is correct the bearings are poured with the spindle in place somehow. Again I'm new but I could replace the spindle using my existing bearing caps but shouldn't use the purchased bearing caps with the existing spindle. Thanks in advance for your help.
 

wa5cab

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#8
Actually the babbit was originally poured with an undersized plug in place of the spindle. Then the standard shim packs were installed and the bearings were line bored. There is actually a photo of the equipment installed and doing the boring operation in the older (1955 and back) MOLO's.
 

lakebom184

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#9
Actually the babbit was originally poured with an undersized plug in place of the spindle. Then the standard shim packs were installed and the bearings were line bored. There is actually a photo of the equipment installed and doing the boring operation in the older (1955 and back) MOLO's.
Thanks for the info. Now I have a better understanding of the procedure. Began spindle dissassenbly and find a small pin after the woodruff key preventing removal of the step pulley & bullgear. Watched a YT video on a spindle with timken bearings no pin. Pin seems to be really stuck and am wondering if I should leave it and just clean pulley & bull gear while still on spindle. Thank you for your help.
 

wa5cab

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#10
Lakebom,

Unfortunately, we don't have a parts manuals on the 101.07380 or most Atlas machines older that about 1938. But go to Downloads and get the parts manuals on the 101.07381, 101.07383, and Atlas Lathe 10F Parts Partial 10L-36-2 5-47.PDF. The differences that I recall between the 07380 and 07381 are the change gear guard, carriage casting, compound slide assembly, legs, tailstock casting, headstock casting, and ON-OFF switch arrangement. Differences between the 101.07381 and 101.07383 are change gears and associated parts. I included the fairly late 101.07383 because it is illustrated. Some of the part numbers won't be the same. But most of them look the same. Atlas never actually did an illustrated parts manual on the 101.07383 so I created this one from the 101.07403 manual plus other sources and drawing modifications.

The 101.07380 is equivalent to a babbit bearing 10. The 101.07381 through 101.07383 are roughly equivalent to a babbit bearing 10D, except that the 101.07381 still used the 9" gears.

As you can see in the three manuals or lists, there is no pin shown to be in the spindle. My recommendation would be to cut it off with a Dremel and cutoff disc as close to the spindle as you can get without touching the spindle. Then work it down smooth with a file. Do this with the spindle out of the headstock, of course. You wouldn't like what the grinding dust would do inside your headstock.
 
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timmeh

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#11
From memory, that pin is threaded. Sounds silly, I know. Bit of shim to protect it and a decent pair of pliers, I managed to get mine out in reasonable condition. And it wasn't that great to begin with.
 

willthedancer

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#12
Some thoughts

Keep all abrasives out of the babbitt.It will easily embed and cut the spindle.

Line boring a new set isn't too bad. You actually can use a shell reamer on a straight polished shaft. The inside of the shell has to be honed, and a close fit with the arbor. You do it by hand. The trick is to center the end of the arbor and use the tailstock for that end, and you must rig a proper located and positive support on the gear end of the headstock. The reamer needs to cut .002 under finish, and should not touch the shims.
 

wa5cab

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#13
Tim,

What model lathe do you have? It wouldn't be the first time that discrepancies have surfaced between what Atlas actually shipped or what the Atlas or Sears parts lists said.
 

timmeh

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#14
Tim,

What model lathe do you have? It wouldn't be the first time that discrepancies have surfaced between what Atlas actually shipped or what the Atlas or Sears parts lists said.
10F, as far as i see.
 

wa5cab

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#15
OK. Most 10's and 10D's that turn up have babbit bearings and most 10F's have Timken bearings. But you could order any of the early 10's with Timkens and the 10F with babbits (up until about 1945).

On an older subject, I have located the part number and description of the pin in the babbit bearing spindle. The part number is 9-116 and the description is "Spindle Thrust Collar Pin". It isn't shown on any of the drawings. I found it on the Craftsman babbit bearing lathe parts lists. It was not on the 10E list or on the special parts list showing the optional 10F babbit headstocks and vertical countershaft

However, like a few other parts, it is not shown on the early spread-out photographs of parts. So I still don't know exactly where it is located. I would guess that there is a partial notch through the thrust bearing, but someone with a disassembled babbit bearing headstock or who just did one will have to confirm or correct that. And also whether or not it is threaded.
 

timmeh

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#16
Still have the original spindle somewhere, will have a look when i get some time.
 

timmeh

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#18
Some pics of the pin and spindle. Not 100% sure if pin is original, was difficult to remove and it was a long time ago now. Definately threaded.
Will clean up spindle a bit more and get it under the magnifying glass to confirm that the location hole is threaded as well.
 

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wa5cab

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#19
Thanks. Do you recall where it was sitting when exposed? I assume that it keeps the inner race of the thrust bearing from spinning on the spindle without it having to be a press fit.
 

timmeh

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#20
View attachment 230185 The pin is located immediately to the left of the small journal on the spindle. It locks the plain collar to the spindle.
Plain collar runs directly on the babbitt material.
You will see in second pic, the journal area to the right of the pin hole. Plain collar goes over the pin and the feed drive gear goes over the Woodruff key.
I've marked and labelled this one, difficult to see though.

Edit; Hole is not threaded, possibly tapered. Only guesstimating by feel with a piece of wire, cannot see very well even with two light sources and two magnifying devices.
The pin that i have is probably not original
 

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