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10" D-E-F versions
- Thread starter Gene
- Start date
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- Jan 28, 2011
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For the casting numbers on the lathe parts, they were used over many years. In fact some of the 9" lathe parts were used on the 10" and 12". Cheaper to reuse the castings over many years.
I had a TV42. T = Timken bearings, V = Vertical countershaft, 42" bed.
H = Horizontal countershaft
Babbit lathes were known as V## or H##.
The following is not gospell, but tends to hold true as far as I have seen. Others may have better information.
The early lathes had 5/8" leadscrews and no Power crossfeed. Later the 3/4" leadscrew was the norm and power crossfeed available was well.
Today when one sees a D series, it does not have the power crossfeed and the leadscrew usually has been changed to 3/4" years ago as the 5/8" parts have not been available for many years.
The F series that I have seen locally all have had the power crossfeed. The power crossfeed was an option, looking at the old advertising as seen in Popular Mechanics/Science will clear that up a bit.
Sears Craftsman lathes have their own model numbers, even though they were supplied by Atlas. Atlas did not supply the Dunlop AA 6" lathes that Sears sold under the Craftsman label.
Likely this is a clear as mud and I may have confused things for you.
Pierre
I had a TV42. T = Timken bearings, V = Vertical countershaft, 42" bed.
H = Horizontal countershaft
Babbit lathes were known as V## or H##.
The following is not gospell, but tends to hold true as far as I have seen. Others may have better information.
The early lathes had 5/8" leadscrews and no Power crossfeed. Later the 3/4" leadscrew was the norm and power crossfeed available was well.
Today when one sees a D series, it does not have the power crossfeed and the leadscrew usually has been changed to 3/4" years ago as the 5/8" parts have not been available for many years.
The F series that I have seen locally all have had the power crossfeed. The power crossfeed was an option, looking at the old advertising as seen in Popular Mechanics/Science will clear that up a bit.
Sears Craftsman lathes have their own model numbers, even though they were supplied by Atlas. Atlas did not supply the Dunlop AA 6" lathes that Sears sold under the Craftsman label.
Likely this is a clear as mud and I may have confused things for you.
Pierre
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2011
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- 10,513
Gene,
To add to or comment on what Pierre wrote, I have about a fourth of the Atlas catalogs between #1 and #40, beginning with #5, with the mix somewhat weighted towards the later end. I also have later ones but these cover the original 9" through the advent of the 10F. In these catalogs, I've not seen any indication that power cross feed was an option. There is some confusion caused by the way in which they did the most recent dated 10" parts list that I know of and reading it, one might assume that you could buy a 10F without it. I think, however, that it was an attempt to include some coverage of the 10D which was still available for an unknown time after the 10F appeared. As far as I can tell from the catalogs, if the lathe has a 3/4" dia. lead screw, it has power cross feed and it is a 10F. And if Popular Mechanics ads seem to belie this, I think it was probably because the 10D and 10F availability overlapped for a year or two.
The first 10" to appear in the earliest catalog I have that shows them were 10A through 10D. Although strangely. in the catalog it never actually describes one of them as a 10D. The A through C were stripped down versions called Unit Plan lathes if Atlas 10" or Universal Lathes if Craftsman 12". The A consisted of the bed (and feet), the headstock, the tailstock, and a compound that clamped directly to the bed. No carriage, rack, countershaft, leadscrew, change gears or back gears. The B added a few things, the C a few more, and the D had everything that was available. The model numbers of the D were 1036, 1042, 1048 and 1054. The A, B and C were the same plus a suffix A, B or C. About the time that the 10F came out, they dropped the A, B and C and added the E which was as nearly as I can tell a C without the countershaft. Its model numbers were 1036E through 1054E.
When the 10F came out, the model number style changed to H or V36 through TH or TV54. So if you have a TH42, it is or was a Timken bearing 10F with horizontal countershaft and could have been made as early as about 1939 or as late as 1957.
On the part number question, once a part number was assigned, it never changed until the part changed. 10D-6 was used on 10" and 12" lathes up until 1957. My 3996, built Summer of 1980, still has a few 9- parts in it.
Robert D.
To add to or comment on what Pierre wrote, I have about a fourth of the Atlas catalogs between #1 and #40, beginning with #5, with the mix somewhat weighted towards the later end. I also have later ones but these cover the original 9" through the advent of the 10F. In these catalogs, I've not seen any indication that power cross feed was an option. There is some confusion caused by the way in which they did the most recent dated 10" parts list that I know of and reading it, one might assume that you could buy a 10F without it. I think, however, that it was an attempt to include some coverage of the 10D which was still available for an unknown time after the 10F appeared. As far as I can tell from the catalogs, if the lathe has a 3/4" dia. lead screw, it has power cross feed and it is a 10F. And if Popular Mechanics ads seem to belie this, I think it was probably because the 10D and 10F availability overlapped for a year or two.
The first 10" to appear in the earliest catalog I have that shows them were 10A through 10D. Although strangely. in the catalog it never actually describes one of them as a 10D. The A through C were stripped down versions called Unit Plan lathes if Atlas 10" or Universal Lathes if Craftsman 12". The A consisted of the bed (and feet), the headstock, the tailstock, and a compound that clamped directly to the bed. No carriage, rack, countershaft, leadscrew, change gears or back gears. The B added a few things, the C a few more, and the D had everything that was available. The model numbers of the D were 1036, 1042, 1048 and 1054. The A, B and C were the same plus a suffix A, B or C. About the time that the 10F came out, they dropped the A, B and C and added the E which was as nearly as I can tell a C without the countershaft. Its model numbers were 1036E through 1054E.
When the 10F came out, the model number style changed to H or V36 through TH or TV54. So if you have a TH42, it is or was a Timken bearing 10F with horizontal countershaft and could have been made as early as about 1939 or as late as 1957.
On the part number question, once a part number was assigned, it never changed until the part changed. 10D-6 was used on 10" and 12" lathes up until 1957. My 3996, built Summer of 1980, still has a few 9- parts in it.
Robert D.
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- Jan 28, 2011
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Robert
You are correct on the dual listing of the lathes. This morning in digging into my old issues and looking at Sears Craftsman Tool catalogues, there is availability of the two versions at the same time.
For example, in the Sears Craftsman Tool, there is the 12" version without power crossfeed and on the next page the "Deluxe" that has the power crossfeed. This holds true for many years. Likely Atlas sold the 10" in the same manner. This would explain the with or without power crossfeed dilemma.
Pierre
You are correct on the dual listing of the lathes. This morning in digging into my old issues and looking at Sears Craftsman Tool catalogues, there is availability of the two versions at the same time.
For example, in the Sears Craftsman Tool, there is the 12" version without power crossfeed and on the next page the "Deluxe" that has the power crossfeed. This holds true for many years. Likely Atlas sold the 10" in the same manner. This would explain the with or without power crossfeed dilemma.
Pierre
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Yes. And Sears was slower than Atlas to offer power cross feed (101.07403 in the 1940 catalog - the first three Deluxe models didn't have it) and slower to drop the last non-power cross feed model (101.07383 sometime after 1943 versus an estimated 1938 for Atlas dropping the 10D).
Robert D.
Robert D.
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I have an Atlas 10D which was made in 1936. It has a 5/8 lead screw and no power cross feed. I believe in 1937 or 38 Atlas changed the lead screw to 3/4 and added a power cross feed. This model was designated the 10F. For a short time between the 10D and the 10F Atlas made a lathe with a power cross feed and a 5/8 lead screw. This was the very short lived 10E which is usually the one converted to have a 3/4 lead screw since it had the power cross feed and the 10D did not. Unless a part was changed entirely with the newer model, it used parts from earlier models. My 10D has some parts that were used in making Atlas' 9" lathe even though it was a 10".
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Sorry, but that is only partially correct. Although I won't categorically state that Atlas never built a lathe with power cross feed and 5/8" dia. lead screw, I've never seen any evidence of it.T he 10E is not an upgraded 10D. It is a stripped down or downgraded version. It replaced the 10A, B & C which were earlier stripped down versions. We have the 10E parts list and at least one catalog (1937 No. 28) showing the 10E. It was a 4-speed model and consisted of bed and feet, headstock less back gears and guards or covers, tailstock, carriage and rack. It was missing lead screw and feed gears, change gears, countershaft, and gear covers, which you could buy and add as you got the money. The bed and headstock came pre-drilled and tapped for the add-ons. The 10E was the final version of what Atlas called the "Unit Plan" models. The buyer could get into a basic lathe for less money and later add the other components until the machine was brought up to 10D configuration.
Sears did approximately the same thing with the 12" where the fully stripped down model was known as the "Craftsman Universal Lathe". But they abandoned that approach after about a year and a half and for several years sold three distinct models, babbitt bearings without back gears, babbitt bearings with back gears and Timken bearings with back gears. Then they also added power cross feed with 3/4" dia. lead screw and the long-lived 101.07403 was born in late 1939 (1940 catalog).
Robert D.
Sears did approximately the same thing with the 12" where the fully stripped down model was known as the "Craftsman Universal Lathe". But they abandoned that approach after about a year and a half and for several years sold three distinct models, babbitt bearings without back gears, babbitt bearings with back gears and Timken bearings with back gears. Then they also added power cross feed with 3/4" dia. lead screw and the long-lived 101.07403 was born in late 1939 (1940 catalog).
Robert D.
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