[How do I?] 10" Atlas Lathe Wiring Furnas Drum Switch L-143-c An 110v Motor

goldhunter_2

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I am new to this forum so I hope this is the correct place for this question . I am needing some wiring help !

I have a old 10" atlas lathe that I got back in 2000 as a basket case (that's what is normal in my price range) I put it back together but wired switch wrong , it ONLY ran in reverse which has been fine for the most part for what I normally use it for but now once again I need forward and reverse. I tried testing each post of the switch with meter to see where power transfer in each F-N-R and marked them on my wiring diagram. I double checked the motor wiring data plate - everything ok. Next I changed two wires in switch (see attached diagram label re-wired) an I have F-N-R now :) I quickly put it back together and while I had help here moved the lathe back into its corner spot ready to start working a project the next day. Now when I put it in reverse it runs great , but forward it hummmmmsss I can start spinning material by hand to get it running in forward (so I thought bad capacitor) BUT as soon as I start cutting or putting load on it the motor bogs down and starts to smoke ......the motor smokes not the capacitor . I don't think a bad capacitor would make the motor bog down an smoke. Of course I stopped and have been back online researching again. Oh ya Reverse position still runs fine no smoke ,no bogging down, no problem starting, issue is ONLY with forward position

At this point I am pretty sure I wired the switch wrong , however the word Confused doesn't even begin to explain how I feel , the last time I had this big of a headache was when I got rid of my Exwife in 98 ! I hope there is enough info here that someone can say hey stupid hook the orange wire to number X, green to number XX,white to number XXX and black to number xxxx

I will attach my wiring diagram an some pictures for reference in case I left any info out.

Lathe Atlas 10" 48" bed , 110v single Capacitor motor (six wire out of the back) , Furnas round drum switch model L-143-C (no factory wiring diagram)

Atlas Lathe & Furnas drum switch wiring diagram.jpg 20160423_120521.jpg 20160423_120714.jpg 20160423_120621.jpg
 
I'm assuming you want to run this motor on 110.

Your motor has 6 wires. Yellow, Black, Red, Green, #1 and #2 The colors may be difficult to identify on these old (but good) motors. #1 and #2 typically
have metal ID tags on the wires.

Green and Red should be connected together. (We will call this "GR")

Black and Yellow should be connected together. (We will call this "BY")

Does you switch have any identifiers on the terminals? If yes are they 1, 2, 3, 4, A, B ?

If YES:

Your input line cord (L1 & L2) should go to Switch "A" and Switch "B"

Motor #1 should go to Switch "1"
Motor #2 should go to Switch "3"
Motor "GR" should go to Switch "2"
Motor "BY" should go to Switch "4"

If forward and reverse are backwards swap Motor wires #1 and #2.

If NO:

It gets more complicated!

FYI Here is a link to a wiring diagram from a similar Walker Turner KAB5E motor set up for 110V:

Walker Turner KAB5E 110V Wiring

EDITED:

I believe your current wiring is more or less equivalent to what I wrote above (should work the same except rotation might be different).

I wonder if you swap your orange and green (Motor #1 & #2) on the switch does the problem now show up in reverse rather than forward? If yes I would suspect the fwd/rev switch, if no I would suspect maybe a problem with the centrifugal switch on the motor.
 
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Yes I want to run 110v, yes it is very hard to see the wire color....lol

yes my motor has the 6 wires an colors as you described , the #1 and #2 do have ID tags

the drum switch does have identifiers L1,L2, 1,2,3,4 no A or B (I assume that L1=A an L2=B) if you look at the first picture/drawing you can see how they are orientated

My 2 an 4 are backwards for what you listed above I can try swapping them tomorrow when I get home to see if that lets the forward run without smoking the motor, I will update after I try and let you know what happens

Thanks
 
update ; changing my number 2 (yellow/black) and my number 4 (red/green) did not make any difference

I pulled the Capacitor off an trying to look for replacement one now. I took pictures because its easier for me to read the label (I'll attach pictures) some of the label is tore off but can see 60 hzs and the long manufacture numbers Phillips 60P70-2522-540-648 MFD which google says its just a "starting" cap so I don't know if its my problem with motor bogging down in forward but I'm going to search ebay an get a new capacitor just in case.

I just noticed your "edit comment" I will go try swapping the orange and green wires in a little bit an see what happens (edit; actual I have to wait until the new capacitor gets here an installed before trying the wires) , if its a centrifugal switch in the motor I'll have to google and see if that's something I can replace or if I have to take it somewhere.

Capacitor end lathe.jpg Capcitor label1 lathe.jpg
 
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The original capacitor for that motor would have been 341-409 MFD (not 540-648). I don't think that is your problem but if you look for a new capacitor
it should be someplace close to that range. 125V is fine but you can go higher (doesn't hurt but may cost more).

Here is one from McMaster-Carr 340-408 MFD (It's the cap I used for my Walker Turner KAB-5E a few years ago)

http://www.mcmaster.com/#7245k23/=12eqryt

They also sell end caps and a mounting strap if you need it:

Catalog Page:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#motor-capacitors/=12eqso3
 
I already ordered the 540-648 MFD 125vac 60hzs same as was there before but if I ever need another one I know it can use the lower MFD now thanks. I'll just use that one.

mine didn't have a bleed off resistor on it ....do I need one? if so what size?

I watched some videos changing the switch looks like something I can do if needed. I was looking for a centrifugal switch for this walker Turner motor so I cold order it an have it here if I needed it , but I don't seem to be finding much info n how to order the right part for this motor......... any ideas?
 
Finding a replacement centrifugal switch for those old motors may be difficult. You can clean the contacts yourself but also check that everything is free mechanically.

My gut feeling is that the FWD/REV switch is the problem. The easiest way to verify that is to take it completely out of the equation.

Connect

Motor Green + Red + #1 + Line 1
Motor Black + Yellow + #2 + Line 2

Plug it in and try it.

Now Swap #1 and #2 so you have:

Motor Green + Red + #2 + Line 1
Motor Black + Yellow + #1 + Line 2

Plug it in, it should run in the opposite direction.

If this works you have a bad FWD/REV switch (it might just need to have the contacts cleaned)
 
Ok I'll try that after I get the new capacitor probably be late next week depending just on how fast the mail is.

I have my doubts about it being a bad switch as I just tested each post with meter the other day to rewire it , but will try your above wiring test anyway just in case. I'll try to get some help one day this week to move the lathe back out into the open where I can work on the back side again.
 
Update/ more questions

Ok still waiting for new Capacitor but showing it has been shipped.

originally while search for info on this issue I found a email on vintage machinery saying they still do some with the Walker Turner motors so I emailed asking for a parts diagram to order replacement parts with and also explained what was happening . Below is their response and I think I am a little lost but more about below

Copy of email response:
We don't have any literature for the Kingston Conley motors - the parts are long obsolete. From the conditions described - it almost sounds like the starting winding is not cutting out, and the motor will draw excess current in this condition leading to overheating, breakdown of the winding insulation, and iminent short. The motor would not smoke unless it was drawing current in excess of 2X it's normal rating. We do service and sell these motors - but we do not sell parts. I would suggest you disassemble the motor and inspect the rotating switch as well as the cut out switch screwed to the rear endbell - you're looking for evidence that the motor is not disabling the starting circuit at about 80% speed. An Ameter will help diagnose this as root cause. The fact that the motor is operating OK i reverse rules out the capacitor - but may point to the starting switch devices as hanging up from dirt / sticky oil, or a broken part.

Walker Turner Serviced Machinery LLC
PO Box 666
Coventry, CT 06238



ok back to me being lost :) I had gotten some help yesterday to move the lathe back out in the open so I could work behind it. I took the whole motor and furnas switch wiring an all loose an put on shop workbench and began cleaning an disassembling --- I am amazed an ashamed at the amount of dirt that came out of the inside of the motor .
I found a switch with points on the rear end cap that's looks like the centrifugal switch in YouTube videos , I cleaned those points with 400grit sandpaper then check with meter that I get good contact there. I also looked at the back half that has the spring an rotating mass to the shaft-- appears good .
Now on the front end cap I don't see any type of switch ??? but I see this weird spring or washers in front of the bearing no sure whats that is maybe just spacer shims ????? will attach pictures
On a positive note while cleaning off the case I found another tag that says it has ball bearings (sometime between 1939 an now...lol) the armature, winding's, bearings all appear in good shape.
NO signs of arcing or shorts internally on this motor that I can see ........... is there anything else I should check inside this motor while I have it open???? If this motor is pulling 2X current like he said to make it smoke I should see some type of arc location shouldn't I ??????

20160516_140618.jpg 20160516_140627.jpg 20160516_140638.jpg 20160516_140646.jpg 20160516_140701.jpg 20160516_140825.jpg 20160516_140845.jpg 20160516_140716.jpg
 
There is no second switch, some motors have a thermal overload but I don't think any of these WT KAB-5E motors have them.

Since you have the motor apart you might as well replace the bearings. Sealed bearing replacements on both my KAB-5Es were 6203-2RS and 6301-2RS. You should double check yours before ordering. If they are original they are probably obsolete numbers but should cross reference to something current.

Did you ever try running without the FWD/REV switch?
 
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