Dorian "First Time Buyer" QCTP and Holder set - beware!

I am aware that my experience with Dorian is not unique. I know of others having similar bad customer service experiences with Dorian. So poor customer service appears to be symptomatic of the company's culture.

I have had two significant contacts with them regarding quality issues and found both times that their customer service was abysmal. This thread is one of the two.

I am not trying to be arrogant, but I am old enough and have enough scars on me to recognize a cultural issue in a company when I see it. Combined with my personal experience with them and that of others that I know and trust, I am personally convinced that Dorian has a cultural fault based on beliefs that must run from the corner office. I have already spent enough time and my hard earned money on them. I am not willing to try to fix a problem with them that is most likely being promulgated by the boss.

I pushed forward and fixed the holder. The additional time I was willing to spend on this is here to help others. I wanted to share my specific experience so others could find and evaluate it before they buy the Dorian "grab bag". While I could find this information in my research, it was not in one place and/or succinct enough to keep me from stepping into the tar pit.
 
[QUOTE="
You also have to remember, most businesses still use the 20/80 rule in managing their business. The 20% customer base is what brings in the largest revenue per say, while the other 80% is there but may only bring in a few $$ annually. They get neglected somewhat more or less, depending on sales. And believe me, us H-M are in the bottom 80%, probably not even enough to make spect on the chart, unless you are like me and spend all of your money on evilBay.[/QUOTE]



What you say is undoubtably true, but dumb and arrogant. The best businesses treat all their customers well, regardless. Besides, making assumptions about customers is foolish since they really
don't know who they're talking to, or who that customer might know, or what they might buy in the future. And courtesy COSTS NOTHING.

This reminds me of a conversation I had one time with a guy who sold BMW cars. In the car business, making an assumption about whether a customer is real or not is sometimes called "pre-qualifying".
This guy told me that he never does that no matter who walks in the door. He said one time a 15 year of kid walked in and asked a lot of questions about the cars, which he answered just like he would
have if he had been an adult. A few weeks later, when the kid turned 16, he came in with his parents and they bought him a car! I don't agree with the parent's decision, but the guy made the sale because
he treated the kid decently.
 
Too bad you modified it. I would have returned it with that attitude.
I don't care if you are a little buyer, or a big buyer. Their response should have been better than what it was. If they have a problem that they recognize I would expect a better response. In this day and age of the internet a little bad juju goes further than good juju. I always read what the problems are b4 buying. Many times I weed out the stupid buyer (using something that it was not designed for, or the wrong size, or not proper use) from the good buyer having problems.
I don't read many of the good responses. Sometimes the company itself plants good responses. I have watched my own negative reviews disappear from the reviews. So I watch for that. When that happens, I don't buy from them again. So if I read a negative and don't see it there later, the alarms go off.
Many of the top guys are now making things in China , some with very good results, others not so great. So when they do, and their price remains high, or higher, their customer service better be top notch.

Sorry you had problems with a premium tool and were treated so poorly. Your posting it here is a slight revenge, hope that helps.
 
Guys, don't lose sight of the fact that the holder was not made to fit that particular lathe, or any specific lathe. Lathes come in 1" nominal increments of swing, and deviate from the nominal numbers. Metric as well. The compound mount on the cross slide can be (and will be) mounted by the manufacturer at any random height they choose. The better tooling manufacturers are pretty good at giving the dimensions of what they are selling. It is up to US to make sure that will work for us. If the product is not as described, then that is a problem with the manufacturer or seller. Poor customer service is always a mistake, intolerable.

Remember that these people are not baby sitters. I did customer service as part of my employment for 26 years. I helped everyone as well as I could, and was polite and cared about helping the customer. I was NOT responsible for the bad information they gave when ordering, but tried my best to sort it out for them anyway. It is difficult to deal with people who want someone to hold their hand on every aspect of a project they have taken on for themselves, and then want to be bailed out every step of the way for something they did not understand, did not take the time to learn, and simply dialed the phone immediately with every slight misunderstanding. Some customer service people simply blow those people away, and that is understandable. I will help anyone who asks. but I will HELP them do the job themselves, not do the job for them. If you cannot do it yourself, hire pros from the beginning, and let them do the job.
 
In regard to determining the suitability of a particular QCTP to any given lathe, there is one critical dimension which is not usually specified. We get numbers for the swing over bed, swing over carriage, and center to center distance but not for the distance from the spindle axis to the top of the compound. It is this dimension which determines if a particular QCTP will work on the lathe. Unfortunately there appears to be no standard for this dimension among lathe manufacturers.

The minimum vertical setting for a tool holder is determined by the thickness of the tool seat and the size of the tool being used. For my AXA class QCTP, the thickness of the tool seat is between .410" and .471" depending upon the manufacturer of the tool holder. Add to that, a 1/2" tool, and my minimum tool height is .910" to .971". My Grizzly G0602 has a distance of .923" from the spindle axis to the top of the compound which means that the only tool holders which will allow me to properly set a 1/2" tool is the Shars 250- 01 XL with the .410 high tool seat.

As far as maximum usable tool height, that is determined by the difference between the height of the tool holder and the tool post, along with the minimum tool height. In my case, the maximum is well over the spindle axis and not of concern. However, if there is a greater distance between the axis and the compound, as in the case of the OP then

Shars gives dimensions for tool posts, as do Dorian, Aloris, and Phase II. A simple measure of the the spindle axis to top of compound distance should determine which QCTP and tool holders will work on your lathe.

For those individuals who are buying a QCTP along with a new lathe, it would be a useful contribution to this site to compile a list of lathes and their spindle axis to top of compound distances. I'll start off by offering the above-mentioned distance for the G0602 of .923" and .779" for my Atlas 6x18, Model No. 101.21400.

Finally, in regard to the OP's problem, I would simply put a spacer of appropriate thickness between the QCTP and the compound. On my G0602, would be able to raise the QCTP by 5/8".
 
I just noticed this today on my new tool post. I've had it for a few weeks but never looked this closelythumbnail_IMG_20170529_165458157.jpg at it.
This is going back to MSC.
 
Wow, that don't look good. I'd return it too. Mine looks nothing like that but I have the red one. And what's up with the yellow paint in the set screws? Maybe the "painter" was drunk that day or maybe Dorian's quality is falling off.
 
RJSakowski said:
In regard to determining the suitability of a particular QCTP to any given lathe, there is one critical dimension which is not usually specified. We get numbers for the swing over bed, swing over carriage, and center to center distance but not for the distance from the spindle axis to the top of the compound. It is this dimension which determines if a particular QCTP will work on the lathe. Unfortunately there appears to be no standard for this dimension among lathe manufacturers.

The minimum vertical setting for a tool holder is determined by the thickness of the tool seat and the size of the tool being used. For my AXA class QCTP, the thickness of the tool seat is between .410" and .471" depending upon the manufacturer of the tool holder. Add to that, a 1/2" tool, and my minimum tool height is .910" to .971". My Grizzly G0602 has a distance of .923" from the spindle axis to the top of the compound which means that the only tool holders which will allow me to properly set a 1/2" tool is the Shars 250- 01 XL with the .410 high tool seat.

As far as maximum usable tool height, that is determined by the difference between the height of the tool holder and the tool post, along with the minimum tool height. In my case, the maximum is well over the spindle axis and not of concern. However, if there is a greater distance between the axis and the compound, as in the case of the OP then

Shars gives dimensions for tool posts, as do Dorian, Aloris, and Phase II. A simple measure of the the spindle axis to top of compound distance should determine which QCTP and tool holders will work on your lathe.

For those individuals who are buying a QCTP along with a new lathe, it would be a useful contribution to this site to compile a list of lathes and their spindle axis to top of compound distances. I'll start off by offering the above-mentioned distance for the G0602 of .923" and .779" for my Atlas 6x18, Model No. 101.21400.

Finally, in regard to the OP's problem, I would simply put a spacer of appropriate thickness between the QCTP and the compound. On my G0602, would be able to raise the QCTP by 5/8".
Click to expand...

Thanks RJ, a very good idea on lathe specific info ref. QCTP fit being posted here on the forum. I would suggest a separate thread on that topic with your data as a start so folks can find it when searching.

Regarding putting a spacer under my QCTP, I prefer to have it sit directly on the compound as designed. My PM1340GT uses a BXA as confirmed by dealer and by many here who have them. I have no problems with any BXA tooling other than the Dorian cutoff shown in Post #1 above. All my Aloris holders and the import holders I have work well within the range needed to adjust them. So to shim the QCTP to fix one poorly designed holder is not something that appeals to me personally. In addition the poorly deigned holder has already made its trip through the milling machine and now is adjustable to the appropriate level.
 
ddickey said:
I just noticed this today on my new tool post. I've had it for a few weeks but never looked this closelyView attachment 234486 at it.
This is going back to MSC.
Click to expand...
Too bad that they could not clean up the face better than than. Looks like their quality program is failing them. I am glad you are within the window you can send it back to MSC. I am betting that the odds are against you that Dorian would help you.
 
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