VN Ugly dog- did U ever make a VN overarm support?

[Glenn Brooks]

hey Darryl, did you ever source a pattern for the VN 12 overarm support? I remember you were thinking of casting these.

I want to put my VN back in service this summer and need a support arm. Of course, haven't seen one ever on the aftermarket.

Thanks
Glenn

 

[Uglydog]

I was loaned an arm off of a VN16.
Different look than the OEM VN12 & 6s.
I took careful measurements and as soon as classes get out (my full time gig is teaching) I intend to make a pattern and pour.
The one I measured was aluminum. My intent is to pour aluminum without the oil reservoir and Bijur oiler.
Instead after consulting with a handful of VN owners they stated they'd rather go with modern sealed bearings.
I scored an A and B support for a VN22. Plan is to do the same.
I could attempt to pour completely OEM but the pump, site glass, bushings etc.
In the event that somebody wanted one from grey cast I thought I'd take the pattern to one of the local foundry's and learn what they'd charge.
I'll be using aluminum castings and not pop cans.
Interestingly I independently spoke with a retired pattern maker and a millwright/foundryman. Without prompting they both reported that the reason that they poured iron and not aluminum is that cast was less expensive.

The bigger problem seems to be fitting the arm to the unique size of each of these old iron works of art, as the center of the round stock and the center of the spindle seems to vary from mill to mill.
I'd likely offer to bore, drill and tap the round stock clamp and face the support where the bearing sits. I could even offer bearings to fit the arbor. But unless supplied the exact center to center distance I'd be reticent to bore and spindle end of the support.

Currently I'm running my VN6 with a shop made arbor support made from solid steel. Very heavy!! I don't like lifting it on/off. Therefore, I just pivot it up and out of the way when in Vertical position.

Long response to a short question.
We also need to resolve the lack of affordable VN collet availability!

Daryl
MN

 

[Glenn Brooks]

Hi Daryl,

yep, I'd be interested if you get to the point of developing a pattern. so the big question is cost? given a choice, I think my first preference would be cast iron. FYI, ive had very good response from Cattails foundry in Pennysvania. They are very, very reasonably priced and do careful, indeed exceptional work. The people who own and operate the foundry are second or third generation Amish, and have a reputation for taking particular care of all the work they turn out. The only cravet - they are in high demand and work traditionally with a 100year old foundry. They very often have a big time lag to produce the castings. Months and months. Aside from this, their verbal commitments and quality are golden.

I've always heard about the only way to guarantee alignment is to bore and finish the spindle on the actual machine the overarm support will work on. I don't think I care one way or the other about the internal oiling well. More modern sealed bearings sounds like a good way to go.

I bought a nice Crystal Lake cylindrical grinder last year and rebuilt it for precision grinding things like VN collets- although haven't done so as of yet. To many projects, not enuf time. Maybe I will experiment a bit latter this summer, when I start getting deeper into my VN 12 rehab.

Let's stay in touch, as your pattern making starts to take shape.

Cheers,
Glenn

 

[BROCKWOOD]

My 24MLA uses the same overarm supports as the 22L. 1 held oil when I got it, but after assembling the horizontal setup & topping off the oil, it all slowly drained out. Guess I'll be rebuilding them. Very interested in this topic!

 

[Uglydog]

I've got extra set of cast iron OEM A and a B VN supports for a 22 (possibly fit others).
Plan was for me to finish cleaning them up an prime coat them.
They both need sight glasses but otherwise seem in great mechanical condition.
If you have any interest I'll sell them as is.
However, I'd like to get you the measurements and confirm they'd fit before we explore this further, I really don't like selling stuff that won't work for the buyer.
PM me if interested.

Thank you!!

Daryl
MN

 

[BROCKWOOD]

Seems to me that this thread could be turned into a "How to build or at least Salvage your Van Norman Overarm Supports"? As for a brand new casting of these supports, it was mentioned that maybe my pair will not interchange with your pair due to custom fitting. Mr Leland would NOT be happy IF this is true. (Henry M Leland). What measurements can I provide to help prove or disprove the theory of nonswapability? I do readily admit the predominant numbers on mine are the serial.

 

[Uglydog]

Seems to me that this thread could be turned into a "How to build or at least Salvage your Van Norman Overarm Supports"? As for a brand new casting of these supports, it was mentioned that maybe my pair will not interchange with your pair due to custom fitting. Mr Leland would NOT be happy IF this is true. (Henry M Leland). What measurements can I provide to help prove or disprove the theory of nonswapability? I do readily admit the predominant numbers on mine are the serial.

I completely agree!
That's why I wouldn't sell these supports unless I know that the center to center would work on the buyers VN.

Daryl
MN

 

[BROCKWOOD]

So, in hopes that the reality might be recorded, I grabbed my most accurate measuring device, a screwdriver to hold it flat & a camera oh & a pencil to click the pic with my teeth. 9 3/16" roughly speaking. Is this in the same ballpark - within a 1/16"?

 

[Uglydog]

Brockwood,
Thank you for the lesson in precision inspecti0n.
I had not considered this option as my 25foot rules are reserved for the wooden structures.

Tolerance is an interesting topic. If my calculations are correct 1/16inch equals .0625.
While I am unclear on the VN OEM tolerances I expected something smaller than this value.

I will not be participating in this thread in the future. Should anyone have serious inquiries please PM.

Daryl
MN

 

[BROCKWOOD]

My apologies Daryl. My attempt at humor was never meant to belittle or demean those that live by the 10th (10th of a .001 that is). I'm getting there slowly. My vision was for this thread to narrow down to exactly what we both want to know. I am new to all this & apparently don't know how to act. You can be sure that I'll go back to silent mode while devising a way to get accurate measurements. Peace.