PM1340GT vs PM1440BV

OK, I follow the costs now, your are talking the package upgrade. I would keep it between the 1340GT and the 1440BV, you also need to look at service and support. It is a toss up between the two, as to what is more important. The 1440BV is an easy setup and will work very well out of the crate. But if fit and finish is high on your list, then I would swing to the 1340GT. The 1440GT a substantial price hike, so it is in another category and no price room for a VFD. The big question is what type of machining you want to do and what is high priority on your list. It is very rare that you will be doing a project that you will need a bigger lathe, and unlikely a 1440 would work any better.

On the VFD, many of us have started out with the basics and learned as we go, but it is a big expense to have as a boat anchor if you run into problems. My main concern with the 1340GT was not having a brake, most of this is physiological as I could have learned otherwise. But having the electronic brake gives one much more confidence that the machine will stop quickly. Still a mechanical brake is more foolproof. Push a VFD beyond its braking capacities and it will unexpectedly freewheel. I do not believe installing a VFD (electrically) is that difficult, there is lots of information and posting with pictures as to how to do the wire hookup. The basic wiring is not too difficult, but designing, building and wiring a full system replacement is more daunting especially if you do not have the electrical background in these things. Purchasing a full control system replacement is costly, but there is very little to figure out with the install. Alan installed a system, this gives you an idea of what is involved and he also detailed the VFD enclosure build elsewhere; http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/jacobs-vfd-control-system-installed-on-pm1340gt.55294/ . Programming the VFD can be a pain, but at least all the parameters have been worked out, and once you start doing it it should become more familiar. It is hard for anyone of us to say what is the better route. If you do have a local electrician or someone to help then you than I would consider installing a VFD system, otherwise the 1440BV makes it very simple and you save some $$. I wish the factory made a VFD 1340GT, I asked when I bought mine, but had to go down the rabbit hole and managed to build a VFD system. It took me 3 months to get it worked out.
 
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mksj was nice enough to help me with my basic VFD conversion on a 1440GT. Other than some power supply issues that had nothing to do with the lathe, the VFD, or the conversion, the change over went smoothly, and works perfectly. The cost of materials in excess of the VFD was less than $150, not counting 50' of 10 gauge, needed to bring power to the lathe.
Mark knows his stuff, and is very helpful.
 
mksj was nice enough to help me with my basic VFD conversion on a 1440GT. Other than some power supply issues that had nothing to do with the lathe, the VFD, or the conversion, the change over went smoothly, and works perfectly. The cost of materials in excess of the VFD was less than $150, not counting 50' of 10 gauge, needed to bring power to the lathe.
Mark knows his stuff, and is very helpful.


David. Thanks for the response concerning your experience with Mainland Chinese equipment, I've read a few posts from you and think I understand where you're coming from. I look forward to seeing the final results of your installation. At this point I'm not sure I have the time or motivation to go thru what you've gone thru to set the lathe up. I did toy with building my own stand partly influenced by a desire to have organized storage underneath. I"ve two shops of just under 700 sq ft each one for wood, one devoted to old japanese bikes that I putter with. Space is a big issue as they're not big enough and I"ve no excuse as i designed the shop areas and we did a custom build house so its my own bloody fault that I'm tight for space!! However time and energy is a finite resource and I'm not sure I want to expend the time and energy in this area and am tempted to go the quick and easy route with the mainland chinese lathe from Matt. your experience with the VFD however gives me HOPE!!! It sounds like the experience was straight forward enough. Thanks for the thoughts.
Alex
 
One of the guys on our local forum is from Edmonton Alberta & had nothing but positive things to say about Matt personally after successfully landing a milling machine into Kanuckistan. Sounds like the shipping & customs paperwork was relatively painless, which is what caught my attention. He goes the extra mile apparently.

Not to dissuade your path, but provide more data points - Modern Tool carries 14" varietals, Chinese sourced (with their specs, bearing upgrades? CSA...) & usually bundled with chucks, DRO, taper attachment etc. Closest to you is Vancouver. Unfortunately they don't carry Taiwan lines anymore in this size so no equivalent to the PM & I saw nothing with VFD. Also convince yourself you actually like the quality of bundled accessories, that's another consideration. I'm not sure about KBC in Vancouver, they might have different 14" flavors under their own name. Same deal with King Canada, seems to be a common business model.
http://www.moderntool.com/products/category/lathes-new/

I just peeked at this 14"model on the floor in Calgary. More weight, higher cost, wider bed, but some nice extended features if that's of interest. Again, comes complete as a package. Coincidentally looks like Matt carries this one or a variant so could speak firsthand to pros & cons & matchup to your work.
http://www.moderntool.com/products/modern-14-swing-40-between-centers-gh-1440-zx-heavy-duty-lathe/

When I phoned ModernTool in Calgary and talked to the sales guy and asked about that 1440 heavy they have retail is about $16,000, nicely equipped tho' but that is way above what I'm remotely prepared to spend, they do have a 1440 which is identical to a Grizzly G0709 but costs about $500 more (they have a Chinese DRO on thier version - Grizzly does not) and this is very similar to a PM lathe which I've asked Matt about and he felt strongly that the 1440BV was a nicer lathe (and he sells both versions). I think it's very difficult for Canadian suppliers selling small volumes to match the prices that Grizzly or PM can get simply because of the volume although tax structure etc may be the issue as whenever I compare identical units from south of the border with the stuffavailable here the equipment from the american store almost always comes in cheaper (in adjusted $) than when purchased in Canada. A bit I feel guilty ignoring our guys but with PM in particular I've heard such consistently good reports on back up and service that I am very strongly biased towards dealing with PM.
Alex
 
OK, I follow the costs now, your are talking the package upgrade. I would keep it between the 1340GT and the 1440BV, you also need to look at service and support. It is a toss up between the two, as to what is more important. The 1440BV is an easy setup and will work very well out of the crate. But if fit and finish is high on your list, then I would swing to the 1340GT. The 1440GT a substantial price hike, so it is in another category and no price room for a VFD. The big question is what type of machining you want to do and what is high priority on your list. It is very rare that you will be doing a project that you will need a bigger lathe, and unlikely a 1440 would work any better.

On the VFD, many of us have started out with the basics and learned as we go, but it is a big expense to have as a boat anchor if you run into problems. My main concern with the 1340GT was not having a brake, most of this is physiological as I could have learned otherwise. But having the electronic brake gives one much more confidence that the machine will stop quickly. Still a mechanical brake is more foolproof. Push a VFD beyond its braking capacities and it will unexpectedly freewheel. I do not believe installing a VFD (electrically) is that difficult, there is lots of information and posting with pictures as to how to do the wire hookup. The basic wiring is not too difficult, but designing, building and wiring a full system replacement is more daunting especially if you do not have the electrical background in these things. Purchasing a full control system replacement is costly, but there is very little to figure out with the install. Alan installed a system, this gives you an idea of what is involved and he also detailed the VFD enclosure build elsewhere; http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/jacobs-vfd-control-system-installed-on-pm1340gt.55294/ . Programming the VFD can be a pain, but at least all the parameters have been worked out, and once you start doing it it should become more familiar. It is hard for anyone of us to say what is the better route. If you do have a local electrician or someone to help then you than I would consider installing a VFD system, otherwise the 1440BV makes it very simple and you save some $$. I wish the factory made a VFD 1340GT, I asked when I bought mine, but had to go down the rabbit hole and managed to build a VFD system. It took me 3 months to get it worked out.

David Best described briefly an easy "basic" conversion of his 1340GT to a VFD with your guidance for what appeared to be very reasonable cost. I absolutely am not getting involved in a complicated conversion with the GT - I'll go with the 1440BV before I do that. Can you give me some basic indication of what this "basic" conversion David did consists of - did he for example use the Hitachi VFD from Matt at PM? Is it viable to put an electric brake on this version of VFD.
Thanks again for the support.
Alex
 
OK, just another opinion.

DRO on the lathe (to me) falls into the "nice, but a luxury" category. 'Nuff said.

3 phase is really nice--I have it on my 1236. Belt changing is a moot point, especially with the VFD. I leave mine on low, and can get 48-2000 RPM. I have my VFD set for 40-90Hz.

You didn't specify (or I missed it) if you are experienced with a lathe. If you are, then 3-phase & VFD is probably the way to go. If not, why not learn on a standard drive? Untold thousands of lathes are in use without VFDs. I'm not, in any way, saying that a VFD is bad--I'm just thinking about someone just getting started, & diving into the deep end too soon.

As to the wiring & setting up a VFD. It is not that tough. Especially when you consider the quality and quantity of very knowledgeable help available here on the forum.

I have done 2 VFD installs. One on a Grizz mill several years ago while living in Alaska. I had ZERO help available. No blue smoke at all.
The second was recently on my 1236. It was considerably more involved due to all the whistles & bells on the lathe. With some hand holding by MKSJ & a couple of others, I got it up & running--again without any blue smoke. I used a totally different VFD than most (irrelevant). It came in a water-tight enclosure. It has two rather serious drawbacks. First is cost, & second is that it has no provision for a braking resistor. It does incorporate some type of regenerative braking and will stop significantly faster than without the braking turned on.



View attachment 229612

Here is what I see as the biggest factor (other than money) in your decision. (The following is not intended to be mean or hateful or derogatory.)

"I'm a bit anal about stuff, like it neat and nice"

Neat & nice generally cost more (in some cases -- LOTS MORE). As you can see in the above pic, I have 3 wires connected to the VFD. One of them is in power from the outlet on the wall to the left. Second is out power to the motor. Third is control cable to the existing power box on the back of the headstock.
Since I am pretty "unclever" about electricity & electronics, I left all of the "stuff" inside the box. I disconnected the wiring from the various switches and reconnected them to the appropriate terminals inside the VFD via the control cable (It has 9 wires inside it.). I have NO HIGH VOLTAGE inside the box on the lathe. The only thing missing from my install is the "jog" feature. That would require running another separate wire to the VFD since I used all 9 of the ones in the control cable. I do not have the coolant system connected, and have the non-oem work light connected to a "wall wart". Power for it arrives via the silver connector on the back splash panel below the VFD.

So, in summary, I would go with the 1340GT Single Phase, and upgrade in a year or two.

Best to you,
Jerry in Delaware

I am an absolute Newby to this game, I last ran a lathe 40+ years ago going thru a mechanical engineering degree and have only played with my son's small chinese 7 x 14 occasionally. That said, it is not easy (read economical) to retro-fit a 3 phase motor to the 1340GT and every thread I've read on the subject seems like 3 phase is the way to go. I would much rather spend a bit more up front and not be wanting to "trade up" in a couple of years. I can't ever see myself really needing more capacity than either the 1340 or 1440 so that's kind of where I'm at size wise. Thanks for sharing your experience it does give me encouragement that the conversion is viable and worthwhile.
Alex
 
Hi Alex,
The basic conversion is outlined in the post below. On the 1340GT I would say 3 phase is the way to go with the basic VFD conversion as a starting point. You can always upgrade to a more elaborate control system at a later point as needed, either way you go you will have a very nice lathe. http://www.hobby-machinist.com/thre...g-the-stock-control-board-and-switches.49022/

As mentioned the basic conversion gives you the same functionality as the stock lathe control system plus speed control and basic braking. On the factory control system it takes probably less than an hour to make the wiring changes. You still need a VFD enclosure and to do some basic wiring. If you have any questions if you choose that route, you can post it or send a PM and a number of us can help you out. The conversion on the 1440GT is similar, but a bit different because of the coolant contactor. All good choices and can be done at a very reasonable cost. So far the basic VFD conversion posted has worked well and can save you about $400 over a full control board system replacement, the caveat is that the contactors must be new, if used they develop too much contact resistance from arcing.
Mark
 
Hi Alex,
The basic conversion is outlined in the post below. On the 1340GT I would say 3 phase is the way to go with the basic VFD conversion as a starting point. You can always upgrade to a more elaborate control system at a later point as needed, either way you go you will have a very nice lathe. http://www.hobby-machinist.com/thre...g-the-stock-control-board-and-switches.49022/

As mentioned the basic conversion gives you the same functionality as the stock lathe control system plus speed control and basic braking. On the factory control system it takes probably less than an hour to make the wiring changes. You still need a VFD enclosure and to do some basic wiring. If you have any questions if you choose that route, you can post it or send a PM and a number of us can help you out. The conversion on the 1440GT is similar, but a bit different because of the coolant contactor. All good choices and can be done at a very reasonable cost. So far the basic VFD conversion posted has worked well and can save you about $400 over a full control board system replacement, the caveat is that the contactors must be new, if used they develop too much contact resistance from arcing.
Mark

OK, that sound adequate for me Mark, which VFD do I purchase to do this as it sounds like the Hitachi unit is a LOT of work to utilize. If I'm going this way - which sounds good I'd like to get the VFD installed in it's box with power to it before my Lathe arrives (early July it looks like) so that I can get the lathe up and running ASAP. Thanks again for the help.
Alex
 
OK, that sound adequate for me Mark, which VFD do I purchase to do this as it sounds like the Hitachi unit is a LOT of work to utilize. If I'm going this way - which sounds good I'd like to get the VFD installed in it's box with power to it before my Lathe arrives (early July it looks like) so that I can get the lathe up and running ASAP. Thanks again for the help.
Alex

AS you can tell by now I'm a bit slow. I finally clicked on the full PDF and went thru it. Does sound straightforward and I'm assuming that is the same Hitachi unit that Matt at PM sells. This helps my decision process, thanks again.
Alex
 
When I phoned ModernTool in Calgary and talked to the sales guy and asked about that 1440 heavy they have retail is about $16,000...
Depending on when you inquired, I think they shuffled the flavour of that particular style & apparently now settled on GH1440W model which goes for 12,974$C including DRO, taper, 3J & 4J chuck... It has more extended ranges but is heavier machine. Based on what I suspect are your needs & wants, you are going down the right path with PM. Look forward to what you end up with & particularly your VFD-ification! :)
 
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